Legislature(2007 - 2008)BUTROVICH 205

03/26/2008 03:30 PM Senate RESOURCES


Download Mp3. <- Right click and save file as

Audio Topic
03:39:43 PM Start
03:40:41 PM HB137
04:36:24 PM Confirmation Hearings – Board of Fisheries
05:33:31 PM Adjourn
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
Confirmation Hearings:
Board of Fisheries
+ HB 137 FISHING/HUNTING/TRAPPING LICENSES TELECONFERENCED
Heard & Held
+ Bills Previously Heard/Scheduled TELECONFERENCED
-- Testimony <Time Limit May Be Set> --
                    ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE                                                                                  
              SENATE RESOURCES STANDING COMMITTEE                                                                             
                         March 26, 2008                                                                                         
                           3:39 p.m.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Senator Charlie Huggins, Chair                                                                                                  
Senator Lyda Green                                                                                                              
Senator Gary Stevens                                                                                                            
Senator Bill Wielechowski                                                                                                       
Senator Thomas Wagoner                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Senator Bert Stedman, Vice Chair                                                                                                
Senator Lesil McGuire                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
CS FOR HOUSE BILL NO. 137(FIN) am                                                                                               
"An Act  providing for  free hunting  and sport  fishing licenses                                                               
for active  members of  the Alaska  National Guard;  and amending                                                               
the  requirements for  the identification  card needed  for sport                                                               
fishing,  hunting, and  trapping without  a license  by residents                                                               
who are 60  years of age or more; and  providing for an effective                                                               
date."                                                                                                                          
     HEARD AND HELD                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Confirmation Hearings:                                                                                                        
Board of Fisheries                                                                                                              
 William S. Brown, Juneau                                                                                                       
     CONFIRMATION ADVANCED                                                                                                      
 John E. Jensen, Petersburg                                                                                                     
 Melvan E. Morris, Kodiak                                                                                                       
     HEARD AND HELD                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
PREVIOUS COMMITTEE ACTION                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
BILL: HB 137                                                                                                                  
SHORT TITLE: FISHING/HUNTING/TRAPPING LICENSES                                                                                  
SPONSOR(s): FISHERIES                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
02/14/07       (H)       READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS                                                                        
02/14/07       (H)       FSH, RES, FIN                                                                                          
02/19/07       (H)       FSH AT 8:30 AM CAPITOL 124                                                                             
02/19/07       (H)       -- Meeting Canceled --                                                                                 
02/23/07       (H)       FSH AT 8:30 AM CAPITOL 124                                                                             
02/23/07       (H)       Moved CSHB 137(FSH) Out of Committee                                                                   
02/23/07       (H)       MINUTE(FSH)                                                                                            
02/26/07       (H)       FSH RPT CS(FSH) 2DP 1DNP 2NR                                                                           
02/26/07       (H)       DP: WILSON, SEATON                                                                                     
02/26/07       (H)       DNP: JOHANSEN                                                                                          
02/26/07       (H)       NR: LEDOUX, HOLMES                                                                                     
02/26/07       (H)       FSH AT 8:30 AM BARNES 124                                                                              
02/26/07       (H)       <Bill Hearing Canceled>                                                                                
03/12/07       (H)       RES AT 1:00 PM BARNES 124                                                                              
03/12/07       (H)       Moved CSHB 137(RES) Out of Committee                                                                   
03/12/07       (H)       MINUTE(RES)                                                                                            
03/14/07       (H)       RES RPT CS(RES) 4DP 4NR                                                                                
03/14/07       (H)       DP: SEATON, ROSES, WILSON, JOHNSON                                                                     
03/14/07       (H)       NR: EDGMON, GUTTENBERG, KAWASAKI, GATTO                                                                
03/27/07       (H)       FIN AT 1:30 PM HOUSE FINANCE 519                                                                       
03/27/07       (H)       Heard & Held                                                                                           
03/27/07       (H)       MINUTE(FIN)                                                                                            
03/28/07       (H)       FIN AT 1:30 PM HOUSE FINANCE 519                                                                       
03/28/07       (H)       Scheduled But Not Heard                                                                                
03/29/07       (H)       FIN AT 1:30 PM HOUSE FINANCE 519                                                                       
03/29/07       (H)       Moved CSHB 137(FIN) Out of Committee                                                                   
03/29/07       (H)       MINUTE(FIN)                                                                                            
04/02/07       (H)       FIN RPT CS(FIN) NT 6DP 5NR                                                                             
04/02/07       (H)       DP: GARA, FOSTER, CRAWFORD, THOMAS,                                                                    
                        MEYER, CHENAULT                                                                                         
04/02/07       (H)       NR: JOULE, NELSON, HAWKER, STOLTZE,                                                                    
                         KELLY                                                                                                  
02/27/08       (H)       TRANSMITTED TO (S)                                                                                     
02/27/08       (H)       VERSION: CSHB 137(FIN) AM                                                                              
02/29/08       (S)       READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS                                                                        
02/29/08       (S)       RES, FIN                                                                                               
03/26/08       (S)       RES AT 3:30 PM BUTROVICH 205                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
WITNESS REGISTER                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE PAUL SEATON                                                                                                      
Alaska State Capitol                                                                                                            
Juneau, AK  99801-1182                                                                                                          
POSITION STATEMENT: Sponsor of HB 137.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
KATIE SHOWS                                                                                                                     
Staff to Representative Seaton                                                                                                  
Alaska State Capitol                                                                                                            
Juneau, AK  99801-1182                                                                                                          
POSITION STATEMENT: Commented on HB 137 for the sponsor.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
KRISTIN WRIGHT, Supervisor                                                                                                      
Finance and Licensing                                                                                                           
Alaska Department of Fish and Game (ADF&G)                                                                                      
Juneau AK                                                                                                                       
POSITION STATEMENT: Answered questions on HB 137.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
DREW SPARLIN, representing himself                                                                                              
Kenai AK                                                                                                                        
POSITION   STATEMENT:  Supported   HB  137   and  supported   the                                                             
reappointments of Mr.  Morris and Mr. Jensen to  the Alaska Board                                                               
of Fisheries.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MCHUGH PIERRE, Legislative Liaison                                                                                              
Department of Military & Veterans Affairs (DMVA)                                                                                
Juneau AK                                                                                                                       
POSITION STATEMENT: Strongly supported  HB 137 especially because                                                             
of section 3.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                              
WILLIAM S. BROWN                                                                                                                
Anchorage AK                                                                                                                    
POSITION STATEMENT: Nominee to the Board of Fisheries.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
BRUCE KNOWLES, representing himself                                                                                             
Susitna AK                                                                                                                      
POSITION  STATEMENT:  Endorsed  Mr. Brown's  appointment  to  the                                                             
Board of Fisheries.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
LINDA KOZAK, representing herself                                                                                               
Kodiak AK                                                                                                                       
POSITION STATEMENT:  Endorsed the appointments of  Mr. Brown, Mr.                                                             
Jensen and Mr. Morris to the Board of Fisheries.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
TOM LOGAN, representing himself                                                                                                 
Big Lake AK                                                                                                                     
POSITION  STATEMENT:  Endorsed Mr.  Brown,  but  objected to  Mr.                                                             
Jensen and Mr. Morris for the Board of Fisheries.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
RICKY GEASE, Executive Director                                                                                                 
Kenai Sport Fishing Association                                                                                                 
Kenai AK                                                                                                                        
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported the  appointments of Mr. Brown, Mr.                                                             
Morris and Mr. Jensen.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
TOM KORMETIS, representing himself                                                                                              
Kodiak AK                                                                                                                       
POSITION STATEMENT:  Supported all three appointees  to the Board                                                             
of Fisheries and Mr. Morris, in particular.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
STEVEN RUNYAN, Vice Chairman                                                                                                    
Susitna Valley Advisory Committee                                                                                               
Susitna AK                                                                                                                      
POSITION STATEMENT:  Supported Mr.  Brown's appointment,  but not                                                             
Mr. Jensen and Mr. Morris.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                              
AL BURCH, Executive Director                                                                                                    
Alaska Draggers Association                                                                                                     
Kodiak AK                                                                                                                       
POSITION  STATEMENT: Supported  Mr.  Morris, Mr.  Jensen and  Mr.                                                             
Brown's appointments to the Board of Fisheries.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
ANDY COUCH, representing himself                                                                                                
Matsu AK                                                                                                                        
POSITION STATEMENT:  Supported Mr. Brown,  but not Mr.  Morris or                                                             
Mr. Jensen for the Board of Fisheries.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
JULIE BONNEY, representing herself                                                                                              
Kodiak AK                                                                                                                       
POSITION STATEMENT:  Supported the  reappointments of  Mr. Morris                                                             
and Mr. Jensen  and the appointment of Mr. Brown  to the Board of                                                               
Fisheries.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
ROD ARNO, Executive Director                                                                                                    
Alaska Outdoor Council                                                                                                          
Anchorage AK                                                                                                                    
POSITION  STATEMENT: Supported  Mr.  Brown's  appointment to  the                                                             
Board of Fisheries.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
JULIANNE CURRY, representing herself                                                                                            
Petersburg AK                                                                                                                   
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported the  reappointment of Mr. Jensen to                                                             
the Board of Fisheries.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
ROBERT HAIANO, representing himself                                                                                             
Bristol Bay AK                                                                                                                  
POSITION  STATEMENT: Supported  the appointments  of Mr.  Jensen,                                                             
Mr. Morris and Mr. Brown to the Board of Fisheries.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
CLEM TILLION                                                                                                                    
Aleutian Islands Corporation                                                                                                    
Halibut Cove AK                                                                                                                 
POSITION  STATEMENT: Supported  the appointments  of Mr.  Jensen,                                                               
Mr. Morris and Mr. Brown to the Board of Fisheries.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
REUBEN HANKE, representing himself                                                                                              
Soldotna, AK                                                                                                                    
POSITION  STATEMENT: Supported  the appointments  of Mr.  Jensen,                                                             
Mr. Morris and Mr. Brown to the Board of Fisheries.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
ACTION NARRATIVE                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  CHARLIE  HUGGINS  called  the  Senate  Resources  Standing                                                             
Committee meeting to order at 3:39:43  PM. Present at the call to                                                             
order  were Senators  Green, Stevens,  Wagoner, Wielechowski  and                                                               
Huggins.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
       CSHB 137(FIN)am-FISHING/HUNTING/TRAPPING LICENSES                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
3:40:41 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR   HUGGINS  announced   CSHB   137(FIN)am  to   be  up   for                                                               
consideration.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  PAUL SEATON,  sponsor of  HB 137,  explained that                                                               
this  measure  looks  at  the  current  Permanent  Identification                                                               
Program  (PID)  that is  a  free  benefit  for Alaskans  who  are                                                               
seniors  over  60  years  old.  Seniors who  apply  are  given  a                                                               
temporary I.D. until they get a  permanent one in the mail. It is                                                               
good as a  hunting, fishing and trapping license for  the rest of                                                               
one's life.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
He explained that  the problem with the program  is the potential                                                               
for fraud because the initial  application doesn't require people                                                               
to prove  they are an Alaskan  resident. They don't even  have to                                                               
show  a drivers'  license  and,  in fact,  if  you have  drivers'                                                               
license from another state, that's fine  - as long as you say you                                                               
are   an  Alaskan   resident.  Troopers   have  reported   having                                                               
difficulty with this lack of verification.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
In 2006,  297,895 seniors had  these free PID licenses  for life.                                                               
No  one  knows  how  current  the cards  are.  Some  people  have                                                               
actually  quit selling  fishing licenses  because so  many people                                                               
using these  cards for personal  use fishing were  obviously from                                                               
out-of-state.  You have  to be  a resident  to have  personal use                                                               
privileges, but it's almost impossible  for state troopers in the                                                               
field to verify.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  SEATON   said  HB  137  modifies   the  permanent                                                               
identification to  a three-year license.  The whole intent  is to                                                               
give  these free  licenses  to seniors,  but to  have  them on  a                                                               
three-year  cycle so  that if  people move  out of  state and  no                                                               
longer  maintain their  PFD eligibility,  then  they wouldn't  be                                                               
able to get the free license.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
The intent  of the department is  to just check PIDs  against the                                                               
PFD  list and  send people  new cards  as long  as they  were PFD                                                               
eligible on a  three-year cycle. Since some  people disagree with                                                               
the PFD  program, HB 137 also  has a provision allowing  a senior                                                               
to demonstrate  he has  been in  Alaska for 180  days out  of the                                                               
previous year  to maintain the  same eligibility. He said  HB 137                                                               
also  expands  this  three-year   free  license  to  active  duty                                                               
National  Guard that  perform emergency  services  for Alaska  as                                                               
well as overseas in support of our country.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
3:45:37 PM                                                                                                                    
ADF&G estimates  the state is  losing $137,000 per year  from non                                                               
residents  continuing  to  participate in  hunting  and  fishing.                                                               
About 300,000  cards are  out there now  and Alaska  doesn't have                                                               
300,000 seniors.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR STEVENS said he supported  this measure and quipped about                                                               
how  many members  of the  Senate are  over 60  and already  have                                                               
their permanent licenses.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
3:47:04 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR WAGONER  said it was a  good idea, but if  the department                                                               
knows there is  that much fraud, why aren't  they doing something                                                               
about it and  prosecuting them. He is embarrassed  that it hasn't                                                               
been addressed by the authorities already.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR GREEN asked what the  current penalty for fraud like this                                                               
is.                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  SEATON  answered  the  he  didn't  know  exactly,                                                               
because the  requirement for residency is  "very squishy" because                                                               
you can  have an  out-of-state drivers' license  and still  be an                                                               
in-state resident. It's very difficult  for troopers in the field                                                               
to determine residency.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  WAGONER asked  how  a person  can  have an  out-of-state                                                               
drivers'  license and  be  eligible for  a  resident hunting  and                                                               
fishing  license. Doesn't  the law  say you  must get  an Alaskan                                                               
drivers' license as soon as you establish a residence here?                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  SEATON replied  that's  true, but  if you  travel                                                               
outside for any length of time  even though you don't change your                                                               
residency, you are  often required to get a  new drivers' license                                                               
in  some  states.  Nothing  in Alaska  statute  ties  a  drivers'                                                               
license to residency verification.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
He has  been told by the  troopers and the department  that it is                                                               
extremely  difficult  to  identify  residency;  that's  why  they                                                               
turned to PFD list. ADF&G has  access to the PFD list which makes                                                               
it an easy call. He said the  penalty for fraud is five years and                                                               
$5,000.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR GREEN asked if the  bill says giving wrong information on                                                               
an application is  fraud or vowing you are an  Alaska resident to                                                               
get a free PID.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON  answered that any  time you tell a  lie on                                                               
government paperwork  there is a  general fraud penalty;  the PID                                                               
doesn't have a separate penalty.  Mostly what's happening is that                                                               
someone was an Alaskan resident  when they applied, but then they                                                               
left the  state. They  have the permanent  card even  though fine                                                               
print on the back of it says:                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
     This card must be in  your possession while engaging in                                                                    
     authorized activities  as described  in the  front. The                                                                    
     card is not  valid if residency requirements  as per AS                                                                    
     16.05.940  and AS  16.05.415 and  veteran requirements,                                                                    
     if applicable, per AS 16.05.341 are not maintained.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR HUGGINS asked what those provisions mean.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON replied that a  letter from the Division of                                                               
Administrative Services  in their packets explains  that resident                                                               
is:                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
     A  person who  for  12  consecutive months  immediately                                                                    
     preceding the  time when the assertion  of residency is                                                                    
     made has  maintain permanent domicile in  the state and                                                                    
     who  is neither  claiming residency  in another  state,                                                                    
     territory or country or  obtaining benefits under claim                                                                    
     of residency in another state.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
He reiterated that the department  has brought this issue forward                                                               
as a problem and that's why the bill is here.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
3:55:02 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR HUGGINS said he wanted to see statistics on violations.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
KATIE SHOWS,  staff to Representative  Seaton, said  there aren't                                                               
any  statistics  because it's  difficult  to  enforce and  so  it                                                               
hasn't  been a  priority. She  had  a series  of eight  anecdotal                                                               
comments from Wildlife Troopers about this type of abuse.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR HUGGINS said  he's looking for a simple  solution and asked                                                               
if they  couldn't just require  having a current  Alaska drivers'                                                               
license.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON  answered that  nothing in statute  says an                                                               
Alaskan  resident  over 60  years  old  has  to have  a  drivers'                                                               
license and many  Natives in the field don't have  them. Both the                                                               
department and enforcement have said  the current system does not                                                               
work and have suggested using PFD data.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
3:58:10 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR HUGGINS said he thought  about expanding the three years to                                                               
five years.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR WAGONER said he didn't know  that there was as much abuse                                                               
as the  department says because  he regularly drives  through the                                                               
parking lot  for the  Kenai dip net  fishery looking  for out-of-                                                               
state licenses and he hasn't seen one.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  SEATON responded  that they  don't have  any idea                                                               
how much abuse  goes on, but they do know  300,000 of these cards                                                               
have been issued.  One of the more problematic  features has been                                                               
not only the  personal use fishery, but the  permit hunts because                                                               
a number  of them  require Alaskan  residency. This  loophole has                                                               
been identified as a problem.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR HUGGINS asked for examples.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON answered like goat hunting.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR HUGGINS said age starts  eliminating the older participants                                                               
and most people over 60 don't hunt for goats.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
4:01:37 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR GREEN asked if they  aren't enforcing what they currently                                                               
have,  why  change  anything  if  it's  not  going  to  make  any                                                               
difference. She didn't know why people  over 60 get a free PID in                                                               
the first  place and she was  struck by a comment  in the sponsor                                                               
statement  that  said  HB   137  establishes  stricter  licensing                                                               
requirements - and she asked where those were located.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON directed  her to section 4 on  page 3 where                                                               
language  says PFD  eligibility  is maintained  by  being in  the                                                               
state for 180 days a year.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR GREEN asked when the proof  of receiving a PFD kicks in -                                                               
at someone's  office who has  access to the  PFD records or  to a                                                               
trooper in the field.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON replied  before the new card  is issued, it                                                               
will be checked at the ADF&G licensing counter.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
4:04:35 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR HUGGINS asked how this would work.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
KRISTIN  WRIGHT,   Supervisor,  Finance  and   Licensing,  Alaska                                                               
Department of  Fish and Game  (ADF&G), replied HB 137  says every                                                               
three years she would have  an automatic system that would cross-                                                               
reference  PIDs  with  the  PFD  disbursement  file.  People  who                                                               
received  a  PFD would  automatically  get  a  new card  at  that                                                               
address. If  not, she would send  a letter stating that  they did                                                               
not receive a PFD and asking  for other proof of residency like a                                                               
utility  bill. She  wouldn't send  anything if  she didn't  get a                                                               
response.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
4:06:37 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR GREEN asked where it says "automatically."                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MS. WRIGHT answered that Representative  Seaton wanted that done.                                                               
The Department  of Motor Vehicles  sends out notices  for expired                                                               
licenses and  she didn't  think that  many people  would remember                                                               
it's time to get a new PID card.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR GREEN said  its one thing to send them  a renewal notice,                                                               
but she wouldn't be automatically sending them a new PID card.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MS. WRIGHT answered  if they were on the PFD  disbursal list, she                                                               
wouldn't make  seniors fill  out another  form because  she would                                                               
already know they are an Alaskan resident and send them a card.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR WAGONER said  it would cost the state  $126,000 in postal                                                               
charges  alone to  send out  notices to  the current  300,000 PID                                                               
card holders.  Why should the  state spend that  additional money                                                               
if people are  going to get a free fishing,  hunting and trapping                                                               
license for five  years. They should be able to  check every year                                                               
to  keep  it  current.  Secondly, he  asked,  if  the  department                                                               
already has  a list of 300,000  PID cards, why aren't  they cross                                                               
checking them  with the PFD list  and sending out tickets  to the                                                               
violators in the mail and a date to appear in court.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MS. WRIGHT  answered they don't  actually know that  these people                                                               
are actively fishing or hunting.  She couldn't send them a ticket                                                               
because they haven't been caught.  It isn't until a trooper meets                                                               
them in the field that they whip out their PID card.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  WAGONER said  he  thought  it would  be  pretty easy  to                                                               
compare the two lists and, if  nothing else, come up with a watch                                                               
list of who is not eligible  and distribute that to the people in                                                               
the field and  the ones selling licenses. He thinks  the state is                                                               
way too  easy on people  who fill up  their freezers and  go back                                                               
home with Alaska's resource.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR HUGGINS  asked her to  explain the timing of  checking with                                                               
the PFD and the expiration.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
4:12:30 PM                                                                                                                    
MS. WRIGHT answered that a license  is valid for a calendar year,                                                               
January through  December. A new  license in 2008 would  be valid                                                               
through 2010.  Some time in  November or December 2010  she would                                                               
look  at the  2009  PFD eligibility  disbursement  and she  would                                                               
either send  a new  card, a  renewal reminder  or wait  until the                                                               
person contacts  her. She would know  the name is valid  for that                                                               
time period.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR HUGGINS asked why not fix this in regulation.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MS. WRIGHT  replied they  probably could, but  would have  to ask                                                               
legal counsel.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR HUGGINS asked what is out of sync with the calendar year.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MS.  WRIGHT  answered that  trapping  license  are valid  through                                                               
January 31 of the following year.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR HUGGINS explained  the reason for that  is because trappers                                                               
were out in  the Bush.  He  still had a hard  time believing this                                                               
is a big problem. Is it a big problem her mind?                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MS.  WRIGHT replied  the Department  of Public  Safety (DPS)  has                                                               
heard a  lot of concerns from  its troopers in the  field because                                                               
it  is very  hard  to tell  if  the people  they  see are  really                                                               
residents  or not.  You  have to  actually go  out  and prove  by                                                               
looking  at their  records where  they are  now living.  In 2006,                                                               
there  were  only two  violations  -  one  in  Hyder and  one  in                                                               
Ninilchik. She wasn't aware of any in 2007.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR WAGONER  said the  PFD list doesn't  do the  department a                                                               
bit of good in determining  residency because someone can be gone                                                               
from the  state 300 days  a year and as  long as they  maintain a                                                               
residence  and  maintain  their   voting  registration  they  are                                                               
legally a resident of the state of Alaska.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MS. WRIGHT said not and get the PFD.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  WAGONER said  just because  a person  doesn't get  a PFD                                                               
doesn't mean they aren't a resident.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MS. WRIGHT  replied she  worked with  the DPS  and DOL  about two                                                               
years  ago on  the residency  issue for  fish and  game purposes.                                                               
Each  program has  its  own residency  requirements.  One of  the                                                               
questions she  came up with was  how long could you  be gone from                                                               
the state.  So the  lawyers found  that courts  also look  at the                                                               
number of  months spent  at a domicile  located in  another state                                                               
versus the number of months spent  in Alaska. For example, if you                                                               
spend nine  months in another  state and three months  in Alaska,                                                               
your residency in  Alaska could be questioned and  would be taken                                                               
into  consideration   along  with  other  factors.   There  isn't                                                               
necessarily a hard and fast rule.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
4:19:32 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR WAGONER  said they should  put it either  into regulation                                                               
or  statute  because  without  that,  people  have  a  legitimate                                                               
argument that they are legal residents.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MS.  WRIGHT agreed  he was  correct  that putting  it in  statute                                                               
would make it clear, but then you  would have a big debate on how                                                               
long you could be gone.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR GREEN  directed them to the  Department of Administration                                                               
memo on definitions.  Since it's in the  Administrative Code, she                                                               
didn't think it necessarily had to be in statute.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MS. WRIGHT  said the  code doesn't  put the  time limit  in; only                                                               
that it will be considered.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR GREEN asked  her to make sure the  current identity theft                                                               
legislation didn't impact the ability  of her department to share                                                               
information with other departments.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR HUGGINS directed Ms. Wright  to get together with his staff                                                               
and  work through  these  issues. He  opened  the public  comment                                                               
period.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
4:21:58 PM                                                                                                                    
DREW SPARLIN, Kenai  resident for 40 years, said he  is an active                                                               
fisherman and hunter.  He has been a grateful user  of a PID card                                                               
for last 10  years and he supported the concept  behind HB 137 in                                                               
light of its many benefits.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
4:23:33 PM                                                                                                                    
MCHUGH  PIERRE,   Legislative  Liaison,  Military   and  Veterans                                                               
Affairs, strongly supported HB 137  especially because of section                                                               
3. They  believe this is  an opportunity to encourage  efforts at                                                               
recruiting,  but also  to  recognize  the men  and  women in  the                                                               
Alaska Army and  Air National Guard for  their efforts protecting                                                               
our state and nation.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR HUGGINS said  this is intended as a recruiting  tool and he                                                               
thought they should  make sure they are not  excluding people who                                                               
might be  in a different  unit. He asked  if other states  have a                                                               
benefit like this.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
4:25:56 PM                                                                                                                    
MR. PIERRE answered not in  Alaska, but other states have similar                                                               
benefits where one presents a military  I.D. as proof of being an                                                               
active  member   in  good  standing.  Reservists   would  have  a                                                               
certified document signed by your unit commander.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR HUGGINS said  sometimes people are a member of  a unit, but                                                               
they live in  a different state and that is  particularly true of                                                               
the  Air National  Guard. He  asked if  Alaska has  any of  those                                                               
instances because that would complicate  the language in the bill                                                               
a little bit.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR. PIERRE  answered he  didn't know of  any Alaska  Air National                                                               
Guard  members who  are residents  in another  state, but  he has                                                               
heard anecdotal stories  about members of the  Air National Guard                                                               
who live  in Alaska  that are  members of  the Washington  or the                                                               
California Air National Guard.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  HUGGINS  said he  was  trying  to ascertain  whether  this                                                               
language works  for Alaska in  the sense that  they have to  be a                                                               
resident and an active member or is it just an active member.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR.  PIERRE replied  they have  to be  a resident  and an  active                                                               
member; that  can be established  with the PFD  qualifications as                                                               
well as  their UTA  good standing  certificate. They  are talking                                                               
about 4,300  members for  the Guard;  for the  reserve components                                                               
they are talking about another 750 people at the absolute most.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR HUGGINS held HB 137 in committee.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
At ease from 4:29:14 PM to 4:36:20 PM.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
^Confirmation hearings - Board of Fisheries                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
4:36:24 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR HUGGINS called the meeting  back to order and announced the                                                               
committee next  would hear from the   appointees to the  Board of                                                               
Fisheries.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
WILLIAM S. BROWN,  Juneau, reviewed his resume. He said  he is 57                                                               
years old, is currently single and  has no children. He has lived                                                               
in Alaska since  1991 and grew up  all over as a  "Navy brat." He                                                               
attended  college in  Texas and  Colorado and  received a  PhD in                                                               
Economics in  1977. He taught  economics at the  university level                                                               
for 23  years, the last nine  of which were at  the University of                                                               
Alaska Southeast. One  of his main teaching  fields was resources                                                               
and environmental economics.  He left the University  in 2000 and                                                               
now runs  a fishing reel  repair shop in  Juneau. He has  been an                                                               
avid sports fisherman  since he caught his first fish  at the age                                                               
of four; it  may be the main  passion of his life.  He has caught                                                               
different kinds of fish all over the world.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
He has  three main things  to offer as a  member of the  Board of                                                               
Fisheries. He has an economics  background and knows that people,                                                               
culture and history are every  bit as important as economics when                                                               
making  fish  board decisions.  Second  he  brings a  passion  to                                                               
protect the  resource to assure  that future generations  have as                                                               
many fish  to catch,  consume and sell  as today.  He understands                                                               
the  concept  of  sustainable harvest  and  supports  it  without                                                               
reservation.  Finally, he  has  no agenda;  he  doesn't make  his                                                               
living by  fishing. But while he  is an avid sport  fisherman, he                                                               
also  buys it  in the  winter  and recognizes  the importance  of                                                               
commercial fishing  to the  state and  subsistence fishing  to so                                                               
many Alaskan residents.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  HUGGINS  asked  if  he  had been  to  any  Board  of  Fish                                                               
meetings.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR. BROWN answered no.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR HUGGINS asked if he had  any concerns about fishing that he                                                               
has  thought about  and how  big was  the biggest  Nile perch  he                                                               
caught.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
4:38:53 PM                                                                                                                    
MR.  BROWN replied  his biggest  Nile  perch was  75 pounds;  the                                                               
longest Mongolian Timan he caught was 58 inches long.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR HUGGINS asked how his name  emerged out of all the Alaskans                                                               
who are sportsmen.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MR.  BROWN replied  if he  was appointed  he would  replace Larry                                                               
Edfeldt, a friend who  has been on the board for  a while. He had                                                               
been working on him  for some months to put his  name in the hat.                                                               
He likes  the culture where the  outdoors is so important  and he                                                               
doesn't want it  to be abused or  used up. He said  he is looking                                                               
forward to dealing with things that matter.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR HUGGINS asked what he brings to the table.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR. BROWN answered  the main thing he brings is  the fact that he                                                               
could look at all the user  groups as equally important. While he                                                               
is a  sports fisherman,  he knows  many commercial  fishermen and                                                               
many of  his friends are subsistence  users; he buys fish  in the                                                               
winter.  He  said most  of  the  decisions  the board  makes  are                                                               
allocation  decisions and  economics can  lend a  lot of  insight                                                               
into them.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  HUGGINS  noted that  people  are  talking about  having  a                                                               
member like him  that get away from user groups  and look just at                                                               
the  value  of the  commodity  and  see  the importance  of  fish                                                               
survival overall.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR STEVENS  said he thought Mr.  Brown would be of  value to                                                               
the board  and asked who  would have his  ear as he  put together                                                               
fish and game policies.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR. BROWN answered  he would try his best to  listen to everyone,                                                               
but listen to  the biological information from  the department as                                                               
well. At the meetings he would  pay the most attention to changes                                                               
of allocation and ask why they  are happening. It would depend on                                                               
the particular proposal.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
4:44:57 PM                                                                                                                    
BRUCE KNOWLES, representing  himself, said he is  chairman of the                                                               
Susitna  River Fish  and  Game Advisory  Committee  and that  Mr.                                                               
Brown  has a  lot  of qualifications  they look  for  in a  board                                                               
member. It seems  he has the impartiality the board  needs and he                                                               
would be able to bring out the real value of a salmon in Alaska.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
4:46:54 PM                                                                                                                    
LINDA KOZAK,  representing herself, Kodiak, endorsed  all three -                                                               
Mr.  Brown, Mr.  Jensen and  Morris. She  has seen  them actively                                                               
work with the department and  industry to make the best decisions                                                               
regardless of politics.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  WAGONER asked  if her  proposals were  considered sport,                                                               
commercial or personal use.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MS. KOZAK  replied that she had  two proposals for the  King crab                                                               
commercial fishery.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
4:49:23 PM                                                                                                                    
TOM  LOGAN,  representing himself  from  Big  Lake, endorsed  Mr.                                                               
Brown.  He objected  to Mr.  Jensen and  Mr. Morris  because they                                                               
support complete destruction  of the northern fish  stocks in the                                                               
Valley.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
4:50:43 PM                                                                                                                    
RICKY   GEASE,   Executive    Director,   Kenai   Sport   Fishing                                                               
Association, supported  the appointments of Mr.  Brown because he                                                               
has  lived in  Alaska  for many  years and  has  a good  economic                                                               
background  that  could help  out  in  all fisheries  across  the                                                               
state. He also supported Mr. Morris and Mr. Jensen.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR HUGGINS  announced that Clem  Tillion, former  Alaska State                                                               
Senator, joined the meeting.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
4:53:33 PM                                                                                                                    
REUBEN HANKE,  representing himself from Soldotna,  supported all                                                               
three  appointments  to  the  Board of  Fisheries.  He  said  Mr.                                                               
Brown's economic  background would bring  a new dimension  to the                                                               
board for  all users.  He supported  reappointing Mr.  Morris and                                                               
Mr. Jensen  for their third  consecutive terms because  they will                                                               
help  the   board  retain  an  incredible   amount  of  fisheries                                                               
knowledge - even though he didn't  agree with some of the board's                                                               
decisions. He said serving on this  board is not an easy task and                                                               
he thanked them for their service on it.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
4:54:53 PM                                                                                                                    
TOM  KORMETIS, representing  himself from  Kodiak, supported  all                                                               
three appointees and Mr. Morris,  in particular. He said he moved                                                               
to Fairbanks in 1959 and is  an avid sports fisherman and hunter.                                                               
This is  where he  met Mr.  Morris who  he found  to be  fair and                                                               
balanced.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
4:57:00 PM                                                                                                                    
STEVEN RUNYAN, Vice Chairman,  Susitna Valley Advisory Committee,                                                               
supported Mr. Brown's appointment saying  "Fish are a state asset                                                               
and the  Board of Fish is  charged with the distribution  of this                                                               
asset." However,  he opposed the  appointments of Mr.  Jensen and                                                               
Mr.  Morris. Their  decisions have  been outside  the purview  of                                                               
both the  sustainable salmon management  policy and  the northern                                                               
district salmon  management plan  when it  comes to  managing the                                                               
northern district  fishery. He explained  that at the  last board                                                               
meeting, they listed  the Yetna and Susitna  River sockeye salmon                                                               
stocks  as a  yield concern  and as  directed by  the sustainable                                                               
salmon management  policy they  produced an  action plan  for the                                                               
ADF&G's use.  However, the  plan is  supposed to  include fishery                                                               
management  actions  needed  to   achieve  rebuilding  goals  and                                                               
objectives in  proportion to  each fishery's  use of  and hazards                                                               
posed  to a  salmon  stock.  Despite the  fact  that the  Central                                                               
District's  drift  and  set  gill  net  fleets  are  the  biggest                                                               
harvesters  of the  sockeye in  those drainages,  these fisheries                                                               
were not included in this action plan.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
He said  under proposal  142 that asks  to increase  the northern                                                               
district set fishing  period on Chinook salmon, the  ADF&G gave a                                                               
conflicted  report  on  the stock  status  of  northern  district                                                               
Chinook.  The  Palmer area  biologist  stated  that many  of  his                                                               
monitoring  systems  were under-escaping  for  Kings  and of  the                                                               
rest,  only two  were at  a level  that could  sustain additional                                                               
fishing. Soldotna  area biologists testified that  their counting                                                               
methods  were not  very  consistent and  thought  the report  was                                                               
bleaker than  warranted. At  that point, as  chair of  the board,                                                               
Mr. Morris should have questioned  the department further on this                                                               
conflict. They  ended up increasing  the northern  district's set                                                               
net fishery for the same salmon  stock by 66 percent for 2008 and                                                               
by 33 percent  for 2009/10. This is despite a  flood in 2006 that                                                               
according to biological reports completely wiped out the return.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
He concluded  that Mr. Morris and  Mr. Jensen have had  six years                                                               
to  gather  an  understanding of  sustainable  salmon  management                                                               
policy and their  rights and duties as members of  the board, but                                                               
they have failed to show an understanding of either.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR WAGONER  asked what  figures he has  on the  early season                                                               
commercial  Chinook salmon  that  are destined  for the  northern                                                               
district and the creel take once they reach the streams.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR. RUNYAN  replied his information on  northern district Chinook                                                               
salmon  harvest is  RC 83,  entitled "Deliberation  Materials for                                                               
Committees A, B and C" which  was distributed at the February '08                                                               
Board of Fish meeting.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
5:04:10 PM                                                                                                                    
DREW  SPARLIN,  representing  himself  from  Kenai,  said  he  is                                                               
president of  the United  Cook Inlet  Drift Association,  and has                                                               
served on  the Cook Inlet  Aquaculture Association.  He supported                                                               
the reappointments  of Mr.  Morris and Mr.  Jensen to  the Alaska                                                               
Board  of Fisheries,  even  though he  didn't  always agree  with                                                               
their decisions.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR HUGGINS asked if he is  a charter member of the aquaculture                                                               
association he served on.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR. SPARLIN replied yes.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR HUGGINS asked  him to give them a quick  rundown of when it                                                               
started and what its task is and what it has evolved to.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR. SPARLIN replied that it started  in 1968 and has evolved into                                                               
a  lot of  work;  its principal  effort now  is  to conduct  weir                                                               
counts  in  the northern  district  using  an intern  program  of                                                               
students  from universities  around the  country. They  count the                                                               
adults  going  in  and  the  smolts coming  out.  And  there  are                                                               
problems  in the  northern district  which no  one denies.  These                                                               
problems need  to be defined  and corrections identified  or they                                                               
won't build any more fish in that system.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
5:08:02 PM                                                                                                                    
AL  BURCH,  Executive   Director,  Alaska  Draggers  Association,                                                               
Kodiak,  said  he   is  also  an  avid   sports  and  subsistence                                                               
fisherman. He  supported Mr.  Morris and Mr.  Jensen who  bring a                                                               
good historical memory to the  board and they both make decisions                                                               
in favor of the fish. He also supported Mr. Brown.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
5:12:29 PM                                                                                                                    
ANDY  COUCH,  representing  himself  from  Matsu,  supported  Mr.                                                               
Brown,  but not  Mr. Morris  or  Mr. Jensen,  because they  favor                                                               
commercial users.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
5:17:06 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR  WAGONER   commented  that  people  keep   talking  about                                                               
commercial  versus   sport  fishing.  The  basically   has  three                                                               
commercial fishing  representatives now and  if Mr. Brown  is put                                                               
on, that will  make four non commercial fishermen.  So, this idea                                                               
that   the    board   is   dominated   by    commercial   fishing                                                               
representatives  who   are  making   decisions  that   favor  the                                                               
commercial  fishermen  is not  true.  They  are looking  at  good                                                               
people who  will do a good  job, not whether they  are commercial                                                               
or sport fishermen.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
5:18:44 PM                                                                                                                    
JULIE  BONNEY, representing  herself from  Kodiak, supported  the                                                               
reappointments of Mr. Morris and  Mr. Jensen. She didn't know Mr.                                                               
Brown, but he seemed like  someone who is knowledgeable and would                                                               
bring  a new  dimension to  the board  and thought  he should  be                                                               
given a  chance. She said she  comes from an avid  fishing family                                                               
and  married  into a  fourth  generation  processing family.  The                                                               
primary goal  should be  to take  care of  the fish  and managers                                                               
should be given the tools to manage for sustainability.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
5:21:55 PM                                                                                                                    
ROD ARNO,  Executive Director, Alaska Outdoor  Council, supported                                                               
Mr. Brown's appointment  to the board. He said  the Council looks                                                               
for  three qualities  in  the board  members -  one  is that  the                                                               
person  is  a  fisherman  and a  consumptive  user,  second  that                                                               
conservation is important, and third that he has no agenda.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
5:23:33 PM                                                                                                                    
JULIANNE CURRY,  representing herself  from Petersburg,  said she                                                               
is   an   active   commercial   fisherman   and   supported   the                                                               
reappointment of  Mr. Jensen  to the Board  of Fisheries.  He has                                                               
extensive  fishing experience  and  a broad  knowledge base  that                                                               
make him an asset on the board.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
5:24:06 PM                                                                                                                    
ROBERT  HAIANO, representing  himself  from Bristol  Bay, said  a                                                               
majority of  his fishing activities come  from commercial fishing                                                               
activities.  He supported  the reappointments  of Mr.  Morris and                                                               
Mr. Jensen  to the  board because they  do their  homework during                                                               
and before  meetings. They also make  a lot of time  available to                                                               
the  public, which  is cornerstone  to the  process. They  have a                                                               
vast amount of  knowledge of federal fisheries  that is important                                                               
to  state  fisheries  management.  He also  supported  Mr.  Brown                                                               
because he has good qualifications to be a board member.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
5:28:07 PM                                                                                                                    
CLEM TILLION said he represented  the Aleutian Island Corporation                                                               
from  Halibut Cove  and  supported all  three  nominees. He  said                                                               
people might  be surprised  at this since  they just  "mopped the                                                               
floor"  with  him  at  the  last board  meeting.  He  didn't  get                                                               
anything  he asked  for, but  on the  other hand,  these men  are                                                               
qualified  and  he couldn't  ask  for  more  than that.  He  said                                                               
"There's gonna be some hard decisions  to be made by everybody to                                                               
get an increased amount of Kings in the upper Inlet."                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
5:30:46 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR STEVENS  said he always appreciates  Mr. Tillion's advice                                                               
because he always takes the big view of Alaska fish.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
5:32:41 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR  HUGGINS  thanked  Mr.  Jensen and  Mr.  Morris  for  their                                                               
volunteering and found no further questions for Mr. Brown.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR STEVENS  moved to  forward Mr. Brown's  name to  the full                                                               
body for  confirmation. There  were no objections  and it  was so                                                               
ordered.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR HUGGINS said in accordance  with AS 39.05.080 the Resources                                                               
Committee reviewed  and recommends  the appointment of  Mr. Brown                                                               
be  forwarded to  a  joint  session. This  does  not reflect  any                                                               
intent by  any of the members  to vote for or  against him. There                                                               
being  no  further business  to  come  before the  committee,  he                                                               
adjourned the meeting at 5:33:31 PM.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                

Document Name Date/Time Subjects